Posts by Disillusioned JW

23

The Emphatic Diaglott, still being published by the WTB&TS for the benefit of ... NOT JWs but for Christadelphians, Church of God Holiness and Abrahamic Faith folks.

by illoowy in

jw
friends

there are english speaking denominations that actively use the emphatic diaglott.

the wtb&ts is the only publisher providing new printings of this nt interlinear.

the r&f jehovah's witness doesn't use the diaglott (not even the jw version of it "kingdom interlinear translation" that supplanted it).

Disillusioned JW

Where I said "... about have the various ..." I should have said "... about how the various ...".

23

The Emphatic Diaglott, still being published by the WTB&TS for the benefit of ... NOT JWs but for Christadelphians, Church of God Holiness and Abrahamic Faith folks.

by illoowy in

jw
friends

there are english speaking denominations that actively use the emphatic diaglott.

the wtb&ts is the only publisher providing new printings of this nt interlinear.

the r&f jehovah's witness doesn't use the diaglott (not even the jw version of it "kingdom interlinear translation" that supplanted it).

I "bought" my first KJV (a WT edition) and ASV (a WT edition) I think in the early 1990s. I had to wait years before the WT announced in a KM that they were available again for ordering. It was easy for me to order them (when they were available) since I was the literature dept. servant at the time. [The booklet which listed the items that could be ordered classified them, the leather/deluxe Bibles, and the KIT as controlled stock items, meaning the KH was not to stock up on many of them (if any) as inventory at any given time, but could order them if people in the congregation requested a copy to be ordered for them.]

When I started looking up WT "proof texts" in the KJV for a number of WT doctrines I noticed that many of the verses in the KJV were incompatible (or more difficult to use) for proving some of the WT doctrines. That made me concerned for awhile. As a result, after learning that, from that point on when I witnessed door-to-door I only used in my reasoning those verses which also worked in the KJV, since I knew people at the door respect the KJV and don't use the NWT. I didn't manage to place much WT literature or start many studies.

dropoffyourkeylee and slimboyfat that is very interesting what you both say about the controlled stock items are no longer available for being ordered from the WT. It is also interesting regarding what was said about the WT having a severe money shortage. Br. Russell (I still use "Br." when referring to him) said something to the effect of 'if the time ever comes when the Lord doesn't support the work financially and that thus the WT Society can't pay its bills without pleading for money, then it would cease operations.'

http://jwdivorces.bravehost.com/russell2.html is very interesting. I wonder how much of it is true. So far I have only read the very first part of it since the page is very long. It is about have the various legal entities of the JW religion (or 'business") are set up legally and suggests how they are controlled, perhaps even in a way for personal profit.

Last time I checked the Diaglott (other than old editions prior to the 1940s) typically receive about $10 plus shipping cost in eBay auctions. I plan to keep my Diaglott and 1985 KIT, for now, for personal study of the Bible and to see how the NWT and other Bibles compare to the Greek text and Diaglott's and KIT' interlinear renderings of the Greek text. If I write a book with the aim to convincing JWs to leave the JW religion I would probably quote from WT editions of those books, thus I should keep them for that purpose.

The Byington Bible I have is one I bought at a local Goodwill Outlet thrift store. I don't like the translation of that Bible, since to me it is considerably harder to understand. As a result, I don't plan to keep that Bible.

23

The Emphatic Diaglott, still being published by the WTB&TS for the benefit of ... NOT JWs but for Christadelphians, Church of God Holiness and Abrahamic Faith folks.

by illoowy in

jw
friends

there are english speaking denominations that actively use the emphatic diaglott.

the wtb&ts is the only publisher providing new printings of this nt interlinear.

the r&f jehovah's witness doesn't use the diaglott (not even the jw version of it "kingdom interlinear translation" that supplanted it).

Disillusioned JW

The WT book Theocratic Aid to Kingdom Publishers (copyright 1945 and thus before the first volume of the NWT was published) on page 266 says "The majority of those the Lord commissions us to disciple are not acquainted with the Scriptures, and religion has made them suspicious of any Bible translation that differs from their own." Isn't it ironic that now the JW religion makes JWs suspicious of any Bible translation that differs from their own?

I currently plan to keep my copies of the WT edition of the Emphatic Diaglott, the KJV, and the ASV. I also currently plan to keep my copy of the KIT (1985 Edition) and my copies of numerous editions of the NWT.

12

NWT informative Pamphlet FYI

by Adonai438 in

their kingdom interlinear translation of the greek scriptures declares:

11. john 1 :1 [''god" as "a god" in order to.

gruss comments:

Disillusioned JW

The first post in this thread (apparently quoting a pamphlet of a Christian ministry) says "Unfortunately, in utilizing this translation, the Witnesses never informed their members that the translation was flawed or that Wilson was a Christadelphian ..." The fact is, in at least one WT publication the WT did tell JWs that Wilson was a Christadelphian. The WT book called Theocratic Aid to Kingdom Publishers (copyright 1945) includes some study lessons pertaining to various translations of the Bible. In one of those lessons, on page 261 of the book, the WT says "Benjamin Wilson, a Christadelphian, published a translation of the Greek Scriptures in 1864, in New York, and designated his work The Emphatic Diaglott. It has so many features of great value, such as a Greek text with an interlinear word-for-word translation in one column and an emphatic English translation in another, that a detailed consideration of its uses in analytical study is undertaken in Lessons 68 and 69."

However though the WT and others have said that Benjamin Wilson was a Christadelphian, a number of websites (including ones written by Christadelphians) say he was never a Christadelphian, and some of those sites say he started a church that had some doctrines different from the Christadelphians. From what I have read I think Wilson's church was the Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith (COGAF) and not the Christadelphians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Wilson_(biblical_scholar) says "Benjamin Wilson (1817–1900) was an autodidact Biblical scholar and writer of the Emphatic Diaglott translation of the Bible (which he translated between 1856 and 1864). He was also a co-founder of the Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith.[1]"

7

What pages were supposed to be cut out of the 1917 The finished mystery?

by mickbobcat in

i picked a copy up at a flea market and can not remember what pages were supposed to be cut out.

.

Disillusioned JW

Yes it was pages 247 to 253, according to https://jwwatch.org/cedars-blog/under-the-microscope-the-watch-tower-societys-claims-to-divine-direction-part-4 which quotes The Watchtower of 1955 5/1 pp. 266-267 as saying it was those pages. In addition the book called "Faith On The March" by A. H. Macmillan says on page 93 that as evidence for a legal case against the WT the Government had portions read from the preface, pages 247-252, 406, 407, and 469 of The Finished Mystery book.

10

Facts you were Not Told When Becoming a JW

by Gerard in

facts you you were not told when becoming a jw .

http://home.powertech.no/festus/awaken/a-007.shtml .

they believe & teach that all religions except theirs are of satan, and your pastor or priest is under the devil's control.

Disillusioned JW

Even the KJV at Luke 2:17 says "it" though in italics, which in the KJV indicates a word supplied to the English text to complete the sense. The verse in the KJV says "And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child." The RSV "New Testament Section" - "Second Edition" (copyright 1971) says "And when they saw it they made known ...".

Hey folks, regarding the change in the baptismal questions in the 1980s what does that mean for those who were baptized in 1981 (prior to September) regarding their legal rights? But what if they later signed an application for pioneer service and an application for temporary service at Bethel?

17

"Modern Bibles" New World Translation - Part II

by Perry in

behold, the days come, saith the lord god, that i will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the lord .

amos 8: 11. .

most of us who have been raised as jehovahs witnesses since at least the 1960s were occasionally reminded of the scholarship of fred franz and his command of eight or more languages, including the biblical languages of hebrew and greek.

Disillusioned JW

I read in one of Greber's publications (I don't remember which one), or a quote from one, that Greber said that in one Part of his NT (in "Part One" of it, I think) he listed all of the passages in which he claims to have received assistance from the spirit world. I obtained an edition of his NT but that edition didn't have that Part/section. It would be important to see if the quotes that the WT makes of verses of Greber's NT are verses in which Greber did not claim to have assistance from spirits. Maybe the WT was careful to avoid using wording that was attributed to spirits. I notice that a number of times when the WT mentioned the copy they had of Greber's NT they describe the cover of it. Maybe their specific copy is the one which had the Part/section which listed the passages which were allegedly translated with the help of spirits. However even the WT avoided making use of passages of Greber's NT which Greber claimed were translated with the help of spirits, the WT still should not have quoted Greber's NT at all in support of the NWT. That is because every single page, or nearly such, of Greber's NT scripture text pages contains wording which sounds very spiritualistic/spiritistic! His NT is loaded with such wording. Yet the WT in their literature admonishes people to stay away from spiritualistic/spiritistic writings - warning people of immense spiritual danger from even owning such writings/objects.

12

NWT informative Pamphlet FYI

by Adonai438 in

their kingdom interlinear translation of the greek scriptures declares:

11. john 1 :1 [''god" as "a god" in order to.

gruss comments:

Disillusioned JW

I notice that vast majority of the criticism of the NWT pertains to statements regarding the subject of the divinity of Christ, but relatively few claims pertaining to other matters. Does that mean the NWT is a very good translation in regards to verses that having nothing to do with the subject of the divinity of Christ? If not, what are more examples of those other kinds of purported problems?

One thing I really appreciate about the NWT is that is does not use any archaic speech, such as thou, thee, thine, didst, etc., even in prayers and other conversations with the god of the Bible. From what I can determine it was the very first English Bible to do so. The RSV still used the archaic language in prayers and and other conversations with the god of the Bible, as did all of the editions of the NASB prior to the "Updated" edition of 1995. The first NIV complete Protestant Bible came out after the first NWT complete 'Protestant' Bible and the first NIV NT came out after the first NWT NT. I suspect the introduction of the NWT, due to it modern speech, contributed to the NIV being introduced. Prior to the NIV, one of the main "selling" points of the NWT to non-JWs was its modern speech.

I for one, in high school and during most of my adult life, struggled in comprehending the archaic language used in the KJV during those infrequent times I read it. In high school English literature class when I had to read works of Shakespheare I had a very hard time understanding them because of the archaic language (including the archaic slang). In contrast I could understand the language of the NWT since it is the same language of English spoken in the USA in this century and in the prior 20th century.

25

Jehovah Witness cult is Anti-christ.... proof seen in the use of BCE/CE instead of AD/BC

by goingthruthemotions in

so being around this cult, i always found it interesting that the rest of christianity use ad/bc and the non christians use bce/ce.

i never put two and two together.

but, it dawned on me that once again there is hidden proof that the witness cult is and anti-christ cult.

Disillusioned JW

Thanks goingthruthemotions for your post clarifying matters. For some reason I had mistakenly misread an earlier post of yours as saying you believe in God, and in thinking you had become an evangelical Christian. Funny. I agree the biblical text consists of fairytales (though I would say "primarily" instead of "all"). I also agree that religions have done much harm and I also want for religion (at least the kind which claims something supernatural exists) to come to an end.

For a site called "Jehovahs-witness.com" there surprisingly seems to be virtually no believing Jehovah's Witnesses making posts on this site. When I first joined this site I identified as a JW, but one who had become disillusioned and who acquired many doubts. Reading posts on this site about 10 - 15 years ago likely contributed to me ceasing to believe in the JW religion.

dropoffyourkeylee, I would like to read what you find out regarding Ussher using the date of 606 BC for the fall of Jerusalem. I once found a Seventh-day Adventist book that was nearly 100 years old which gave the date of 606 BC (or maybe 607 BC) for the fall of Jerusalem. Online there seems to be some non-JW's religious groups using that date also or 607 BC. In the WT edition of the KJV it has a range of dates in the ball park of 587 BC on its pages, but I'm not actually sure if it specifically had the date of 587 BC for the destruction of Jerusalem. I largely took the word of HowTheBibleWasCreated on that specific matter. The pages of that Bible for 2 Kings chapter 25 do say "B.C. 588" however.

12

NWT informative Pamphlet FYI

by Adonai438 in

their kingdom interlinear translation of the greek scriptures declares:

11. john 1 :1 [''god" as "a god" in order to.

gruss comments:

Disillusioned JW

I own a copy of "The Twentieth Century New Testament: A Translation into Modern English, made from the original Greek (Westcott & Hort's text) by a company of about twenty scholars representing the various sections of the Christian Church - Revised Edition". It is copyright "1900-1901-1902-1903-1904". It uses the expression "in union with" in a number of places including in John 14:10 where it says "Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father, and the Father with me?" See https://www.bibliatodo.com/en/the-bible/twentieth-century-1904/john-14 for an online edition of that NT translation. That NT translation is one of my favorites, due to its very understandable modern English (other than using thy, thou, and similar type words in prayers) and because to me it appears to be highly accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Century_New_Testament says The Twentieth Century New Testament's "... translators were not professional scholars ..." but it also says "Because of the translators' meticulous attention to the best scholarship of their day, Bruce Metzger concluded that their version still holds up remarkably well today, despite the lapse of over 100 years." The web page at http://newworldtranslation.blogspot.com/2018/05/the-new-world-translation-bible-and.html (a JW pro NWT web page?) quotes a number of other respected NT/Bible translations which use the words "in union with".

John 8:58 in the 1973 NASB had an alternate rendering of "have been" in the margin, though the main text said "I AM".